Will Power Podcast by Will Humphreys

The $8 Million Truth: Tim Spooner's Raw Journey to Freedom and the Future of PT

• Will Humphreys • Season 2 • Episode 3

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Prepare for a deeply honest and incredibly inspiring conversation with Tim Spooner, founder of Spooner Physical Therapy, the largest privately-held PT company in Arizona, and the founder of Solve Global. Tim opens up about his own struggles with cash flow, overwhelm, and working full-time in the clinic, revealing the breaking points that forced him to pivot toward true freedom.

This episode is a must-listen for any private practice owner, especially those feeling stuck. Tim shares invaluable advice for shifting your mindset, stepping out of treating, and embracing leadership to scale your business. He also discusses how AI is already playing a role in revolutionizing healthcare analytics in his new ventures, offering a unique perspective on the AI vs. VA debate. Get ready for practical wisdom mixed with profound insights into passion, purpose, and the future of our profession.

In this episode, you'll discover:

  • From Struggle to Scale: Tim's raw story of overcoming financial and operational overwhelm to build an empire.
  • The "Breaking Point" Myth: Why true freedom often begins when you recognize you can't do it all.
  • Critical Advice for Owners: Practical tips on stepping out of treating, increasing your business acumen, and trusting your team.
  • The Purpose-Driven Path: How passion for healthcare and solving global problems fuels sustained growth and innovation.
  • AI in Action: Learn how AI is being leveraged for advanced analytics in new healthcare models.
  • The Human Connection at the Front Line: Tim's unique philosophy on why some roles demand in-person interaction, even with the rise of AI and VAs.
  • Overcoming Guilt: How to navigate the emotional challenges of stepping into a more strategic leadership role.

Join us as Tim Spooner shares his journey to impacting thousands, freeing up his time, and pushing the boundaries of what's possible in physical therapy.

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Speaker 1:

Hey, rock stars, I got a riddle. What do you call a physical therapist who almost bankrupted his company and then turned it into a 600-employee powerhouse across two states? You call him Tim Spooner. In this episode, Tim is gonna go back behind the curtain on his journey from treating full-time across multiple clinics to leading Arizona's largest independent PT group and launching Solve Global. That's a tech-powered game changer for our industry. That's transforming corporate healthcare.

Speaker 1:

We're going to talk about freedom real freedom, Not the kind that you post on Instagram, but the kind that comes after asking for help, hitting rock bottom and then building something that lasts. And yeah, we're going to go into AI and artificial intelligence and VAs. Tim shares how predictive analysis are helping prevent injuries before they happen and why he still misses the party in the back of his clinic. This one's for every clinic owner, every private practice leader, so that you can have a bigger dent in healthcare without losing your soul. Let's dive in. It's almost like a trap, right, it's a trap. People get passionate about treating, but they choose to become an owner and then they stay in the business because they're treating and they just burn out. Tim, thank you so much for being on the show as a repeat guest. Your last episode did so great in this new season that we're doing with AI and VAs and freedom. I was so grateful that you were willing to come back on the show.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, Will. It's a pleasure to be here and I especially like the concept of exploring what freedom should look like to a therapist. I looked forward to having that discussion.

Speaker 1:

Me too. I just think you and I are super connected about the bright future of our industry, which was our last episode. And yeah, freedom has to be in play, because I would say that's probably why a lot of people aren't in our profession. That used to be, or even considering. Maybe that's not why I should join the profession. But let's talk about you, Tell us about your businesses.

Speaker 2:

Sure, well, first of all, I'm the CEO of Spooner Therapy. Spooner has been around for 35 years now and we have 27 locations in Arizona and two in Texas and we have roughly 600 plus employees and we have specialists of basically any type of specialist you can think of in therapy, from hand to women's health, to breast cancer, to neuroimpedes and especially we emphasize sports and orthopedics. So there's not anything really that we can't take care of and we have a lot of experience amongst our 160 plus therapists.

Speaker 1:

That's amazing. Are you the largest in Arizona, the privately held in Arizona?

Speaker 2:

I believe so. I'm not sure, I believe so, I'm not sure. I don't think there's any one of our size left that hasn't been acquired by private equity and or a strategic.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's interesting because at least that's what I've been telling people.

Speaker 2:

I believe that's true. I know there's some up and comers that are now getting into 7 and 10 sites, which is awesome. I mean, as a proponent of the profession and a proponent of people who have, you know, worked with us and now own their own clinic and stuff, to me that's great for the profession that we grow as independent practitioners but we continue to collaborate, which I think is really key practitioners, but we continue to collaborate, which I think is really key. Um, for instance, this week, I uh I was uh involved with a couple other therapists and and we went down and met with a state senator. Um, if you, if you notice that, uh, or if you recall that recently, utah passed a, a bill to promote physical therapists as primary care musculoskeletal providers and we are looking to get a similar bill sponsored here in Arizona.

Speaker 1:

If freedom had a love language, it'd be delegation. So if you're tired of wearing all the hats the CEO hat, the insurance hat, the why am I doing payroll at midnight hat it's time to get help. Book a free discovery call at virtualrockstarcom and let's show you how hiring a virtual assistant can finally free you up. We have paired hundreds of private practice owners with their ideal virtual rockstar assistants. Owners with their ideal virtual rockstar assistance. Don't miss out on the second fastest growing trend in healthcare and in saving $20,000 per year of profit per hire. Remember, you deserve a business that gives more than it takes. Remember, back in the day, talking about collaboration with what would be considered competitors, you and Mike Bastin the great Mike Bastin a good guy, he used to own Foothills before he exited and, man, what a great collaboration that you guys had in helping the Arizona State private practice section. So it's really cool to see how you've done that. But that's not your only company either. Tell us about your other company.

Speaker 2:

So I'm also the CEO of Salt Global, which is a tech-enabled human maintenance organization, and what that means in just simple speak is that we work directly with employers to help them with their mus the risk in an employee population, and then go and intervene. So we're working upstream from what we would normally see in an outpatient clinic, and, as a therapist, to me it's like the embodiment of why a lot of us get in is to prevent a lot of injuries, but catching them early and being able to help them is is a is just super fun. And then what it does, though, is give our practitioners who are doing it tremendous freedom, because they are extremely autonomous, working with an employer and taking care of 1,000 people and if you told me I'm going to take care of 1,000 people in an outpatient clinic today- oh they'd jump off a bridge.

Speaker 2:

I don't know how I would do that, but if I have technology that says, hey, of these 1,000 people, you should touch base with these 15 today and maybe may have some type of communication with these other 10. And so I can keep in contact. I can still use my hands-on skills, but I can have an extremely positive interaction with an employee base for a company, which helps the company. It helps that individual, that employee, have access to physical therapy services and by doing that we help them feel and move better and ultimately it lowers health care costs, because of the fact that 80% of musculoskeletal things should be taken care of by a conservative primary care provider, and that's what we do.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, rock stars. I really can't emphasize enough how big this concept is that Tim is developing, and for multiple reasons. You know the vision of the profession being doctors in the community. That's what this is. It's a different, it's a completely different model because the PTs here are the doctors in the communities over these companies, and there's so much to that because it's more profitable for the business owners and the PTs can make more money and have more freedom. And we're doctors and I mean, like, think about how it affects the population, the industry and the individual therapist. It's.

Speaker 1:

This is a game changing business that you have and I get nothing for saying this. Let's be clear, Cause it sounds like I'm selling it already, but I'm just super passionate about anything that's pushing our profession forward, and in this case I just want to highlight rock stars as well. That Tim and I are having this conversation while he is at his cabin in the mountains, not only like preserving life for his family, but also like you're, seeing clients up there, like you're. You have, because of the way that you've created Spooner Physical Therapy, the core business you have. What did you do with your time and your profits? You're you're helping more people and moving the profession forward. It's not like you're laying on the beach 24 seven.

Speaker 2:

And and it's and we have, we have, uh, we take care of firefighters across the Arizona landscape and we take care of two districts that are up here, the Pinetop and the Timber Mesa District up here and, as such, I get to stop in, see them, talk with them, strategize on how we can help keep our first responders healthy and safe. First responders healthy and safe and what we call you know ready. You know we want to help them from hire to retire and beyond, and when we think of that, we want to make sure that they are ready and fit for fire. You know, are they fit for fire? You know, are they fit for duty? And that is a huge, huge thing because there's, they're.

Speaker 2:

Being healthy is a is a safety thing, and you know, if they have to run into a burning building, um, if they can't do something that could put not only themselves but others in jeopardy, and so it's, it's, it's fun for us to care of them and really hear what they need. And I'll just tell you that it broke my heart that I talked with one last week and he said, yeah, I just don't like going to XYZ place because they treat me like a 75-year-old.

Speaker 1:

A physical therapy place he's going to yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and this is a 40 year old athlete, you know that has to do physical things. So we, you know we have to make sure that we are meeting him and meeting the demands of his job where he's at.

Speaker 1:

Well, one thing that you mentioned thank you, tim, for sharing all that. I think one thing that you mentioned that I'll dig into later is how AI plays into that, because you mentioned that artificial intelligence is leveraged, so placeholder rock stars, as you're listening, that later we're going to hit on this AI VA debate that we're having and right now, tim, I think, as people are listening to you especially any private practice owners they're probably feeling a little disconnected because they're like, wow, look what Tim's doing. I could never do that. Share with me what, share with the audience what you're talking to me about one of those moments when you really were struggling in your business, and how and why you were struggling and what you ended up doing about it to help you kind of get to where you are now.

Speaker 2:

Well, before we go there, if you, if you don't mind, let me you know. For those who are feeling like they want to do something in this space, I talk with therapists literally all over the country on a weekly basis and what I ask them is do you want to turn your relationships into revenue? And that's essentially what we do. So their relationships, they're taking care of their community, they're seeing patients and undoubtedly, some of them may be business owners, and there is not a business owner that I know of in the United States that is not being affected by health care costs and you have a solution for them. And so I help them understand how to have those conversations, but also how to implement a solution, a direct-to-employer solution, such as Salt Global.

Speaker 2:

And so it's fun for me to help somebody in Kansas City, to help somebody in Texas, to help somebody you know in Minnesota. You know we're in multiple states now and it's what are we doing? Well, we get to do what we went to school to do, which is help people, but now I'm getting some freedom from the nickel and diming of the insurance world and I'm having a direct conversation with an employer who values what I can provide, and it's not the same as putting a PT on site Right, because putting a PT on site without technology and without understanding the risk of where the risk is in that employee population, you're going to treat the loudest hangnail and that's not really helpful to the employer. You provided some access but you didn't take care of, you left a lot of chips on the table is what I would say.

Speaker 1:

Very powerful stuff. Thank you, tim, I appreciate that. And actually, before we even get to that breaking point and how you pivoted into this freedom, I love that you said that because you highlight the real suppressive causes as to why many private practice owners not just PTs, but healthcare providers in general are struggling with their freedom. Owners, not just PTs, but healthcare providers in general, are struggling with their freedom. So, from from from, before we get to the whole, like when did you pivot, why did you choose this path and why do you keep choosing it as you scale? Many people like you mentioned smaller than you tap out and sell. Why did you choose and why do you keep choosing?

Speaker 2:

What's your purpose and passion here?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you, you mentioned, uh, you know, getting together with Mike Bastin and we formed the Arizona Rehab Alliance and we had we had several private practice members in Arizona that were, that were part of that, and I learned a ton from that, and what I learned most was that we need to work and collaborate more as a profession versus working in isolation, and that the abundance of of patience means that the other practice owners aren't my competition.

Speaker 2:

My competition is what limits my ability to get paid. And so, as we're going through that, I kept noticing that my healthcare costs for my own company I was in a fully insured program at that time kept rising up at a 10 to 15% every annual rate, and I know therapists that it's risen as high as 30 to 40%, that it's risen as high as 30 to 40 percent. Uh, you know, I know annual jump. And at the same time, the same company that I was paying those premiums to was lowering my re, lowering my reimbursement. So I noticed this huge spread and I said this seems wrong. And so I took it upon myself over the last 10, 11 years to really educate myself on health care, on what the insurance industry looks like and to dwell deep into that, to say number one how can I fix my own problem in my company?

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

And then second, how can I play in that space? Because I feel like I have something valuable to provide the community, but I want to do it on a scale basis. I want to be able to help more people and that's what led me down the path of direct-to-employer and the self-global solution.

Speaker 1:

Got it so very passionate about helping that industry drives you forward. So let's now hear about a time that you didn't have it all figured out. Let's go back to a time. What? Was there? A stage of your business that maybe you felt the stress and overwhelm and recognized some key things there?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I'll name a couple of them, and one of them was we just moved.

Speaker 2:

We just gone to four clinics.

Speaker 2:

We were jumping from two to four million annual revenue and getting ready to probably double that again, and I realized my skill set as a leader weren't there, and so I enrolled myself in a it was called tech back then, it's called Vistage now, which is executive training leadership, and it was very helpful for me to meet with other business owners who essentially acted as my board and they held me accountable to running a business and it was instrumental in my development, and we'd bring in expert speakers on everything from of business, how to do a strategy and do some strategic planning things that were not common or very easy for me to do because I'd never been fully trained in them, and so I learned from people who are running three $400 million businesses and they would come with me once a month and they would poke me in the chest and say how's your business?

Speaker 2:

And everything from how you introduce yourself to how you run a business, to understanding what cash is in the business. So at this same time, we were rapidly expanding and going from four to eight clinics and we were busy. Things were. You know we're seeing a lot of patients, but I made a couple mistakes, and my mistake was I outgrew my cash.

Speaker 1:

We were busy in the clinic. You didn't have enough money.

Speaker 2:

I had zero cash. And when I did that uh, again, this board was very helpful to me they peppered me in the chest and said look, you know, without cash you have no business. And I said, no, but look at all these people in my clinic that you know. Look at, look at all this people in my clinic, look at all this AR. And they couldn't believe the state of my AR, which was a whole other scenario, because, yes, we were busy, but we weren't collecting the money and I had to pay people every two weeks. So it was a rude awakening. After 15 years of being in business, I essentially bankrupt myself and I had to go into my own pockets to keep the company going. But I believed in what we were doing, and so I made a few strategic changes there. One of them was bringing on experts in the arenas with which they function so operations, people, accounting, hr these were hired?

Speaker 1:

Were these employees that you hired?

Speaker 2:

Yep, okay, I made that decision to move that route because I realized that the aspect of being a good practitioner and just having an office manager was only going to take us so far.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

We needed more structure, we needed more systems in order to scale and standardize a few things, and that was a key point. And so when we did that, you know, in the beginning it was just myself and another person who wore several hats apiece, and meanwhile I'm still treating full-time too.

Speaker 1:

You're treating full-time, with all this going on, yeah, and a bankrupted company.

Speaker 2:

So I would see patients, I would go home and see my kids and see my family for a couple hours and I would come back and do accounting at night. I mean, it was not the best of times, let's put it that way, but when you dig in and you go through those tough things, I think you really learn your business. Number one, and the reason that you got into private practice comes to bear. I didn't get into private practice to make a million dollars. I get into private practice to be creative, have freedom that you mentioned earlier but also to take care of people, and so we were taking care of people. I just need to figure out some of these other things so that we could continue to do that.

Speaker 1:

Man, I feel more connected to you. I wanted you to share that so that the audience could be more connected, because you and I are buddies. But at the same time, I never knew that and it's something that is so paralleled in my journey.

Speaker 2:

I don't go around saying how I bankrupt myself.

Speaker 1:

very often but what's ironic about that, tim, is that I think people who are listening are starting to really pay attention, because when we see what you've accomplished and this is true for all very successful people it can feel out of reach in terms of like, well, that's great for them, but I'm not that guy. So when when someone says, wow, he went from that to that, then it becomes inspiring. It's like, well, maybe I can do more. And I would say you know what you said there was so inspiring because it's so relatable to this the fact that most people probably listening who've struggled in their companies have been in that position where, like, cash stinks or is non-existent, but business is so overwhelming that they're stressed on both ends in a way that you would think would line up. So, as people are listening, what would you, what advice would you give to to young private practice owners, um, in maybe one to two location stages Like, what, what would be the two or three freedom creating tips that you would give them?

Speaker 2:

There's gotta be some standardization and some structure. There's there's that old adage of structures, you know, set you free. That was especially true for me In the. The person that are hired to deal with me today is, you know, provided structure and provided systems. They basically downloaded a lot of the ideas and stuff I had in my head, but put structure on them so everyone could understand them and we could have systems and things in place, and so I think it's really important to look at that and understand. Before anyone goes into private practice, I always ask them like, why are you doing it? What is your passion point? And because there will come a time when things happen and you're going to have to rely on. That's why I'm doing it. Because if you go into it for financial reasons, um, there'll be a time when it may not work out, and if that's the only reason you're into it, then it's it. It becomes, I think, a shallow shell thing. Your passion has to be something, um, I think, deeper than a material object.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's almost like a trap. Right, it's a trap. People get passionate about treating, but they choose to become an owner and then they stay in the business because they're treating and they just burn out?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I think the key things I would tell them is that surround yourself and find great mentors, people that you trust that will give you honest opinions, whether that is, you know, an executive training group, someone outside of the business. So when you're the leader in your business, there's certain things you can't talk to your other employees about, and this is why it's important to have other collaborative leaders that you can talk to and not be threatened by them.

Speaker 1:

That's amazing. I love that advice. Anything else you would add for people for advice?

Speaker 2:

The other thing is that as your business grows, your skill set will have to improve in different areas, and whether that is you know. For me, I mean, when I started the business, we didn't have computers. Let's put it in perspective, it was a pegboard accounting system, you know. So all through that, I had to upgrade my computer skills, spreadsheets. Understanding all of this thing, you have to continually adapt and grow. Um, you have to grow as a, as a communicator, as a, as a leader. It's one thing to be in front of 10 people, it's different to be in front of 100. And it's certainly different to be in front of 600.

Speaker 1:

Got it. So here's my question to you You're at this stage. Where are you still learning these things that you talk about? You have to increase your skill. Are you still increasing your skill, or have you hit a skill level where maybe the focus isn't on improving the skill as much as it's expanding what you're doing Like? I'm curious, at your stage, what that looks like.

Speaker 2:

Now there's always something to learn. I would say, right now, the skills that I'm passionate about working on are how I can relate better to CEOs so I can solve their problems. So it's sales techniques. It is understanding relationship level sales techniques. It is understanding how to communicate a bigger problem to a bigger audience. Ultimately, I want to fix health care, and I believe that therapists can have a huge role in that, and doing it as a one-off is going to take us a long, long time. Doing it as a collector of hundreds of thousands of therapists who can take care of people, I think there's something very powerful in that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's inspiring too. I just saw the connection, too, of your purpose of fixing healthcare and this company Solve company, solve global.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

I have to like slow down, cause I, when I say solve global, I can't. I can say it so quickly, people can't hear it. So I like solve global, cause it's like we're solving this global healthcare issue and and and truly like. I love that you're still working on the skillset, tim, because again, I think when you're down here looking at other people's accomplishments, it's easier to not connect with that. And it's it's almost like what you said, those pieces of advice you gave to people at that one to two clinic stages. You're still living. You're just living at a different level, doing it differently. So it's not like you've stopped learning. It's just what the context is is shifted Maybe. Maybe expanded might be the better word than shifted, I don't know.

Speaker 2:

I've always believed in asking why. And so, as a practitioner, we ask you know, why did the rotator cuff tear? Yeah, you know what, who, who are his friends that didn't come to bail him out. And why did that one tear and not the other one? You know, and and so, as you ask why, you learn a deeper solution. You learn deeper answers to where the problem in the biomechanical source may be. It may be that the rotator cuff tore, but the biomechanical problem may be down in the left ankle and and if you don't understand how to connect things, that's a big issue and so you apply that.

Speaker 2:

I apply that same aspect to how to work with people, but also how to how to work with people, but also how to work with business, because there are problems out there and you ask well, what are they? You look at healthcare, for example. It's a $5 trillion industry. Why isn't it better? Why is it costing more every year? And we're not getting a good return on investment because of walking down the streets of America, I don't see 10% healthier people.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we're getting sicker. Costs are going up, we're getting sicker, although I did hear yesterday from a practitioner that last year was the first year thanks to Ozempic and Trizipatide, that it's the first year where obesity actually started shifting the other way. But anyway, I mean to your point, this massive expense that we have is not, it's not showing up. If anything, it's getting worse and we know that the musculoskeletal people who are listening, the PTOTs, slps, like we are the solution. It's not like, oh, we should be doctors. It's like, no, we are the solution and I love that. Your passion is helping them at this stage. What about this? Did you ever, tim? Did you ever have guilt as you were starting to step into leadership more? Did you ever have guilt not treating or not being over the team directly as you've gone through these different stages? That's something.

Speaker 2:

I know.

Speaker 1:

I have had a different. Okay, so you've had that. How do you handle the guilt of becoming more free in your business?

Speaker 2:

It's a fabulous's. It's a fabulous question, and it's one I I honestly struggle with all the time I.

Speaker 2:

I yeah absolutely, I, I still, you know, I, I, I in in my garage I have a little workout area but I have a table and stuff because I bring people in and I treat them here because it's it's easier for me to just to bring them in and treat them. Um, so I always, I always likened it to a, a smoker. You know smokers always got that little twitch, you know they, they want to smoke, they want to have their finger, like for me for putting my hands on people. For you know, 20, 30 years it's like I've been a therapist for almost 40 now you want to do something and so I had that nervous thing that I'd want to do something with my hands.

Speaker 2:

And for me, when I went back to get my fellowship training, I got it in clinical, I got it in clinical training. I didn't go back and get an MBA or you know a different degree. I went back and got a fellowship in in treating because to me that's where I felt like I could help the business the most. Number one. But two is where my passion lied and it kept keeps me connected to our clinicians, keeps me connected to what we do as a profession, and so I've never really left the clinical side, but you bring up an important point, like when you're stepping out of it. That's challenging and some people are ready to be done with it. To me, treating was always the easiest part. Being an executive is way harder Way harder.

Speaker 2:

I do not like sitting. I don't, you know, it was always. The clinic was just fun for me. I had a blast in the clinic. It was chaos, it was, you know, seeing patients and helping them was always the fun part. But I also realized that I could help 15 people today, or I could help 20 people today, um, but I have 200 people relying on me for their paycheck. I have to make better decisions and it was selfish for me to see 15 people when I could help people. I could help train therapists who could do that. Um, I could still be around to do mentorship and and do evaluations and stuff with uh therapists and problem solve and and treatment plan, um, but to do it and not do my other work. Uh, which was at the time, was uh causing problems for the company. I was was short-sighting the company.

Speaker 1:

So, yeah, in short, what I heard you say was yeah, you still struggle with it, and the only way you've been able to work through it is recognizing that stepping forward into freedom was actually what was better for all.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

That's so amazing. I mean, honestly, my mind's kind of blown. I'm just thinking of all people I thought you'd be like. I mean, honestly, my mind's kind of blown. I'm just thinking of all people I thought you'd be like, oh well, I struggled with that 20 years ago and here's how I did it. And it's gone and cause I still struggle when I progress in whatever business I'm doing or whatever I'm working in on, on not being in that space. But it's, I think I will say this Um, I was listening to a psychologist who was talking about this new diagnosable um state of mind called the healer mindset.

Speaker 1:

Obviously healthcare providers, but it's not just healthcare providers who have it. It's a mindset that they're using in psychology to help treat people, because people who consider themselves healers, they have all these great qualities and they're very prone for overwhelm, not taking care of themselves, getting into a victim mindset about like well, no one's doing as much as I am, like just every person has an element of that. But a healer mindset is like embodies those qualities in such a big way that I think there's something really kind of beautiful for me, honestly, like it's almost like comforting to go. Oh, tim still has elements of that in his life.

Speaker 2:

It's okay, it's okay, you bring up a great point. And I struggled with that mightily as we were growing and trying to put some structure into the business. And, um, we were reading all kinds of different books and stuff on the subject matter of how to get better, and it wasn't until I said I need help in front of my team and made myself vulnerable, that they finally go. Well, great. Finally, you asked I was trying to help them and grow the business, but I hadn't asked them for help. Yeah, and being vulnerable in front of them was a was the biggest freedom that I got, because they said well, here here, dumb, dumb, dumb shit, dumb, dumb, dumb shit, don't worry, you're fine. Yeah, um, but it, it, it was, yes, we, we we'll fix this.

Speaker 2:

And we'll fix this they were ready to help. Yeah, I hadn't asked them and so from then on, I've, I've, it was just, it's a. It's incredibly liberating to find experts, people, people and say I need help with this, I need help with this, and whether it's my own team or outside resources, once I got over that hump, man, that was liberating and freedom squared. It was monumental for me.

Speaker 1:

Tim, I can't thank you enough for sharing that, and it's so powerful. You know, this whole shift in the show is all about, like I said to you earlier, about helping people really achieve freedom and not just have it be a tagline. And so I've learned so much in these new episodes and you you identified what I am going to tell people is the single greatest tip of becoming free, which is finally being vulnerable enough to ask for help.

Speaker 2:

Yep.

Speaker 1:

Man, it's such a simple thing.

Speaker 2:

But man do we know it's the strongest thing. It's the strongest thing to be vulnerable.

Speaker 1:

And in Brene Brown other leaders are saying that when leaders can show vulnerability, it shows connection, it creates culture and all the things that we're trying to achieve.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Um, so okay. Well, tim, I think you just hit like a major, a major clip that we're going to use in social media over and over again. That was huge, my. We're going to shift now into this theme of like how technologies and movements in our industry are there to help free us up this AI versus VA piece. In your case. Let's start with AI. I want to hear more about how Solve Global and artificial intelligence work together to help create freedom for this new model and your patients and the whole thing.

Speaker 2:

Sure. So there's a big aspect of healthcare. We have tests. We have all kinds of different tests to tell us, you know, if you're diabetic. We have blood tests. We have different things to test for heart, heart disease. We have different tests for all kinds of things.

Speaker 2:

So if I stand up in front of a group of therapists and say what is the test to tell me what risk you have for a musculoskeletal condition, most therapists would not have a clue and the answer is it's a comfort and performance survey is what it is. It's. You know, how are you doing? And then we have a thing that is research-based, that has different questions, that we ask that determine the individual risk index, and then that is compiled into a through predictive analytics, and that into an index for the company, an index for the company, so we know where their risk is. And that risk is very easily to translate into dollars and very easy to translate into what happens to these employees. We know, for instance, I just had someone reach out and said hey, 50% of my injuries happen in the first 30 days of employment.

Speaker 2:

Oh wow, large company and I'm going. Okay. Now we could say, oh, these people are coming over and they're faking it, but when you boil it down, it's not that at all, because there's been studies in the military that you know. We have all these people coming into boot camp that are putting on packs, starting to run, starting to do all this stuff, and they develop musculoskeletal injuries because they're ramping up. And, just like the military, it doesn't behoove them to injure people. They need people who are ready for for combat right, combat ready is the is the new phrase they want to have. And employees need to be, you know, like, like the firefighters, fit for fire. Are they ready to go into harm's way? Um, in, in and take, not only take care of themselves, but do their job.

Speaker 2:

And so these employees that are coming in, what does a company do in the first 30 days when they give them a repetitive physical task? Are they doing something to help ramp these people up? Just like you would an athlete, just like you would someone returning to sport probably an injury, it's no different. These people are doing physical work. How are we preparing them for that? So when we look at it, say all right, I can't take a thousand people and have them do a marching test. You know that's not going to work. That's not going to work, but I have to use technology and AI type things to find out where these people are and then intervene, whether it's an individual basis or our data will let us know that. Hey, the third shift working on this machine, these 10 people are having problems with their right shoulders.

Speaker 1:

So does AI analyze all this data and tell you those elements like this is where you're weak, this is where in your because that one guy knew, hey, the first 30 days, this is where so many percent of my injuries occur. Ai is taking those surveys, analyzing all the data and saying here's the risk areas or here's the things that need to be worked on to prevent that. Yeah, I wouldn't.

Speaker 2:

I mean, I wouldn't say it's true AI. It's more predictive analytics, but there's AI-generated things within it.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I see.

Speaker 2:

And we use a lot of AI in our messaging in terms of how we are trying to connect with folks. So I think there's a lot of things there as well. I will say that I am not the most up on AI guy that's out there either. You know, I'm not of that age that is totally into it and not like my kids are.

Speaker 1:

You've got this company that's leveraging this AI-assisted analytics piece and most people I've interviewed so far might have like a note taker or chat GPT as like an email cleaner, but, like most people so far in this episode this is my fifth episode I filmed today Most people so far don't have this groundbreaking like knowledge of AI, so I don't think you're as far out as you think, but if, if anything, you're probably more advanced because you are using this in this new model of business for analytical reasons, which is so amazing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I do like those, uh, those note takers. I got a fathom or whatever you want to call them. You know the different ones that are out there. Man, does that make, uh, um, you know, synthesizing a hour-long conversation to go oh, here's the things I need to do? And to me, when you talk about freedom, freedom is, and if that can do that work and condense it down and give me my next steps or something I can delegate, that's time, that's freedom.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that makes total sense, so that's neat that you have some experience there. Spooner Physical Therapy isn't leveraging any specific AI products at this point. Is it Like any industry-wide ones, or is it more of these smaller ones that we're talking about?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I would say there's some things on the business intelligence that they're looking to use. I wouldn't say we recently have changed practice management software and so we're getting into their business analytics and business intelligence stuff there. So it's coming Um research and development.

Speaker 1:

Research and development You're looking into some things that are going to be big, and I know I won't say anything on who, but I remember there was at one point you were looking at some AI solutions as well on the back office end. So there's, you guys are in there. I think that's a common theme. I'm finding, tim is, a lot of guys and girls are in the early stages of just seeing what's out there for healthcare businesses.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, when I look at it to me it's how can I take my people that work for us, that are helping us take care of people and free up routine, mundane tasks?

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And whether that is in RCM, whether that is in just front office and being able to do things with helping patients schedule easier or verify insurance things that could be done on an automated basis if the industry was a little bit more efficient. But I want my people to operate at their highest level. I want my therapist to have time to be able to think so that they can treat complex patients that are walking through the door. And what can I do to free up their time of documentation and take away some of these things that are not having a therapist with a doctorate level education, you know mess with, you know stupid insurance forms, you know this stuff needs to go away. Amen.

Speaker 2:

This is not operating at our highest level. So you know we need to do things that you know we need people to operate at a much, much higher level, and when they do that, to me it's like I get to help people be their most successful, that they are and they get to grow, and so that's the fun part for me. I'm in the, I'm in the process of helping people grow and helping them, um, get to their next level. Cause if they come and take my job, that's great. Cause I've got a bigger problem I want to go solve.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you're, you're. You're clearly choosing with your passion and your purpose to keep going up as far as you can to help solve healthcare, so like when someone replaces what you're doing you've helped them for one and then they're helping you solve the bigger issue. So I love that part and I like that you went to the human side of things, tim, because that's a nice transition over to the virtual assistant side, now that we have an idea of how you use AI. Are you currently working with any virtual assistants? The second fastest growing trend?

Speaker 2:

We are not working with any virtual assistants at this time. What we've noticed is that over the last 10 years, let's say, the people are shifting how they want to engage with healthcare. Before it's like they got to come up, they want to talk to some individual, but now we're noticing that there's a significant population that wants to schedule on their own. They want to fill out their things online, so they want those automated tools that they can do on their own time to make it efficient for when they come into a clinic. To make it efficient for when they come into a clinic. I think it's, you know, some patients. I don't think they want to be in the clinic any longer than they have to yeah.

Speaker 2:

And they don't want to be. They don't want to be inundated with repetitive paperwork, which again is a nuisance in our industry as well.

Speaker 1:

All health care Every time. I just went to a doctor a couple of weeks ago, I filled out the same bit of information on six different pieces of paper and I'm going. This is insanity that I'm doing this.

Speaker 2:

And it's a waste of people's time. We should be better. So, that being said, we notice that people are consuming different. So we have kiosks, we have ways for them to sign in online, we have ways for them to fill out their paperwork and do things that we have ways for them to engage with our therapists via chat functions and do things that are more efficient for them. And the more that our profession embraces this, the more freedom they're going to get back.

Speaker 2:

And I say that because what isn't happening right now is we're stuck in a schedule, we're stuck in a slot, and people are bound by a slot because that's how we're getting paid right now. So it's piecemeal, and we have to change our thinking into a value mindset that says if someone does a chat with me and I engage with them and I provide value, there's a remuneration for that. So when we take care of employers, that time is value and because of that, we're not getting paid for words in a chat. We're getting paid to keep that person well, keep that person healthy, and when we keep that person healthy, that saves the employer money. It also makes a more productive and healthy employee. So it's just moving our mindset over to this other side to say how can I use all the things that I know as a therapist and provide help and make sure that I'm there when the client, the employee, needs me?

Speaker 1:

I love that. So, kind of on, the first part of what you were saying about the VA element is you're saying, hey, it's not that you're using AI or VAs, you're trying to just minimize the automation of either so that people can just do it themselves, kind of like the self-expressed checkout lane when it comes to the front desk. Yep, what are your thoughts about companies that use virtual assistants for any side of the business, like, do you have any reservations for not using virtual assistants?

Speaker 2:

I don't. I mean, there's a certain aspect of the population that needs help and so I don't know what the backup is on a virtual assistant when someone you know has a frustration or doesn't you know, it doesn't click, um, but the models that I've seen, they, they work pretty well, okay, and I just think, when I'm treating in multi um, language barriers and different things, that there's some complexity there. Uh, and personally, when, when I opened my first clinic, the reason I wanted to open it was to deliver customer service. And can I deliver customer service with a VA? Yes, is it the same as what I would want to have?

Speaker 2:

Well, it depends on how well I number one if I hire someone, how well I train them. Yeah, because I can train that VA over time and get them better and better and better. But there's a human aspect there that, as an old school person, I'm not there yet and I would like to pay that person more because they do such a great job of being my extender. But there's things that we have to decrease where we don't have to have as many of them, for instance. So that's where I think these other added VA things can help, just decreasing the load in a busier practice.

Speaker 1:

Thank you so much for that answer. That was such a great response. I've been like I told you before we hit record. I don't want this thing to be a giant commercial. I'm really interested in just these trends and freedom and I think your point is incredibly valid that, like there, it's a total shift of model to work with virtual assistants and even though you guys are, there's nothing against it and you're even open to some of these utilizations. I like your focus, tim of like no, that person who is at the desk, whatever point the patient has a contact with you want it, you're willing to pay them more because here's a person who like lack of better terms is a salesman. Like there, there's like human interaction, a connecting point there that is so personal that like if, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, kind of mentality. If you've got that thing going, why would there be a huge shift or a need in that space?

Speaker 2:

I liken them to a party. I liken them to a party planner because I always looked at the back of the clinic where I'm treating as the party, where we're having fun and stuff, and if someone calls up to the front I want them to invite them to the party.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

You know I don't want to ask them hey, what's your insurance card? What do you remember?

Speaker 1:

You know I don't, and you want them to understand what they're saying. You want to hear clear communication too.

Speaker 2:

I want them to say you've got a problem, we've got someone who can help you fix it. A problem, we've got someone who can help you fix it. Welcome to the party. I want it to be that, because that's the atmosphere we try and create. We want to have fun in the clinic. People are coming in in pain. Their life has been disrupted with a car accident, their life has been disrupted with surgery or something, or they've been kicked out of their sport because they had an injury. We're here to help restore some normalcy, but we better have fun while we're doing it, or this is a tough gig.

Speaker 1:

Man and I think that's why people go. There's a lot of private practitioners who listen to this, but the PTs who are most of our audience, the OTs and the SLPs, that's why we got into it. It's the human connection and the fun of it. I have a lot of fun in my current you know world, for sure, but I don't know about you, tim, but for me there was a stage in those earlier stages where I was in the party and I had enough support to where it wasn't all on my shoulders. It was probably in that stage right before I had a breakdown where it was like not quite so big that it needed me to go aggressively into a new skill set.

Speaker 1:

But I'm I. That's what I miss. I don't miss treating as much on my end. Um, I do miss. I miss the party man. I miss that fun when everyone's having a good day and patients are getting better and the old, you know crazy guys coming in with jokes and everyone's laughing and everyone's working hard and there's those intermittent touching moments of deep personal interaction that are moving people forward. Like there's something about that. I think that's what I'm hoping, that's why I'm still in it, because that's what I remember most and obviously that's what's driving you is, that's what we're protecting. We say party, but man, it's, it's, it's it, and it's a party on steroids, because it's also life changing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean my patients, my employees, you know people I work with. They've become lifelong friends. They're people I've traveled with, that we've done all kinds of things with. So that's what's made my life what it is. I I can't ever separate that out, that those, those people are, are part of my life. I I helped them with something they may have. They may have helped me with something.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I love it. All right, tim, we're going to finish with a rapid fire questions. I've got five locked and loaded. Are you ready?

Speaker 2:

All right, fire locked and loaded.

Speaker 1:

Are you ready? All right, fire. Okay, top book. That's blown your mind.

Speaker 2:

The Null Asshole Rule.

Speaker 1:

Oh, love that. What's your top time saver hack, professionally or personally? We had Michelle Bambenek recently talk about egg timer or egg cooker. What's a top time saver hack, either professionally or personally, for you?

Speaker 2:

Touch it once, touch it once. Brilliant. What's the top time saver hack either professionally or personally.

Speaker 1:

For you, touch it once, touch it once, brilliant. What's the most time-consuming task that you secretly enjoy?

Speaker 2:

I would say mentoring people.

Speaker 1:

Oh, love that answer. What's the latest thing that you've delegated?

Speaker 2:

Latest thing I've delegated is the relationship building within one of the D2E companies.

Speaker 1:

Love that. Okay, this is the final question. It's the easiest one, but it's the debate of the season. Tim, definitively which is it AI or virtual assistants?

Speaker 2:

Why do they have to be mutually separated or not together? To me, you're going to use them both for different reasons.

Speaker 1:

Beautiful answer.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you're going to use AI, because AI has so many more components versus just an assistant.

Speaker 1:

That was a really cool answer. So, for those rock stars who are listening, we're keeping track. I'm not filming these episodes in order. So, seth, who's my creative specialist and wonderful podcast editor, for the people who are listening, we're keeping track. I'm not filming these episodes in order. So, seth, who's my creative specialist and wonderful podcast editor, for the people who are watching on youtube, please show the score and we'll see where we are at this stage of ai versus va. Um. Thank you, tim, so much for being on on the show. What a wonderful episode this was for me. I got so much out of it. I feel super more connected to you as well, and and we were already friends and I know people who are listening are going to want to learn more. So we'll make sure we put all of the contact information on your companies and you in the notes. We'd love to pass it over to you for your final thought.

Speaker 2:

Number one I appreciate what you're doing of connecting our profession and you, um, you know you've transitioned from ownership, and so being a guest on this is is fun for me, because I can't do what you do, but I I enjoy bringing value to therapists, um, and I enjoy bringing our professional value to, to to the country and and and beyond, if we can. So to me this is a fun way to do it and you know, hopefully I hear from a bunch of rock stars that they can find us, and if you're interested in anything more that we're doing, follow us on social. We're all over the place with Spooner on Facebook and all of the others, so follow us and hopefully we'll be in touch soon. Thanks.

Speaker 1:

Tim, you're amazing man. Thanks for tuning into the Willpower Podcast. As always, this is Will Humphries reminding you to lead with love, live on purpose and never give up your freedom Until next time.

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