Building Values That Create Warriors with Jarom Woodbury

Jarom Woodbury is a professional MMA fighter turned physical therapist, regional director at OSR Physical Therapy, and a father of three. In this episode he breaks down how he built a "Warrior Code," a set of seven family values lived out through weekly meetings, daily habits, and hard conversations.

Will and Jarom unpack the Point Story Lesson behind real values. The point: a value is not a word on a wall, it is what you do daily. The story: Jarom's pro fight where he got caught in a chokehold, heard his "inner coward" tell him to tap out, and chose to fight back instead. The lesson: the only true failure is quitting, and every leader, parent, or business owner can build a system that turns belief into action.

They cover the inverted U principle and managing arousal under pressure, why accountability means clarity not just pressure, how to run a weekly values meeting with kids or a team, and why admitting imperfection builds more trust than pretending to have none.

Key Takeaways:

• Values are actions, not words. A value only counts if it shows up in daily habits. 
• The Woodbury Warrior Code. Jarom's family lives by seven values: Integrity, Honesty, Honor, Compassion, Courage, Loyalty, and Respect.
• Repetition makes values stick. Jarom calls it paramount. You can't set a value once and expect people to internalize it. 
• The inverted U principle. Performance rises with arousal up to a point, then declines. Too relaxed and you underperform, too keyed up and you make costly mistakes. 
• Accountability means clarity, not just pressure. It's not only checking someone's numbers. It's making sure expectations are clear, realistic, and understood, then helping people hit them.
• The inner coward. Mid-fight, choked from behind, Jarom heard a voice telling him to tap out and that no one would blame him. He calls that voice the inner coward, the part of all of us that wants the easy way out.
• The only true failure is quitting. Quitting is the only outcome that closes the door for good.
• Lead by example or it doesn't count. Waking up early, doing the hard thing, showing up consistently is the real teaching.
• Admitting imperfection builds trust. What matters is owning it, apologizing, and showing them how to ask for forgiveness.
• Gratitude rewires your mindset. A short nightly gratitude journal, just two to five minutes, helps program the subconscious toward noticing and seeking more success.

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Transcript

A Personal Reason To Listen

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Right after I film this intro, I'm having my sons listen to today's episode. It has been transformational, and I'm still on fire after filming it with Jerem Woodbury. He's a professional MMA fighter, turned PT, who has been a regional director for OSR, and we're talking about the martial artist mindset. It is a complete system of how he has built values in his family and in his business that help transform people to help them overcome difficult times. And this isn't just a path to making more money. This is a path of how to build a team of people and build ourselves as leaders. I was so inspired. I told him at the end this should be a book. This should be its own like series. So you have to listen through this episode. At the very end, if you don't cry, let me know in the comments and I will definitely do something. I'll give you a Starbucks gift card because by the end we were both in tears, but also inspired. So this is an episode you type you dial in on, you go double down on. Enjoy the show.

What Values Really Mean

SPEAKER_01 1:00

Jaron, we're talking about values today. Why why did you want to talk about values? Why is that so like close to the vest for you?

SPEAKER_03 1:07

I think it's because it really is who defines us. I think you can say a lot of things, and I and people in my company know that it sometimes I don't shut up. I'm talking a lot. And but I like to make sure that it's aligned with what I really believe in and what I do every day behind the scenes. So values kind of ties into our own systems that we establish during our life, you know, and what keeps us like the long game. Yeah. That's kind of like values for me, is like we're playing the long game.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

So values are like a vi part, so it ties into vision for you in that way. Because I think you know, most people we talk about values a lot in when it comes to leadership, but we usually focus on purpose or vision. But we're gonna dive into values, and you're seeing it right off the bat, you're saying it's it's about what you believe in, and it's something that's tied to vision. But if you could what does it could you define what values are more fundamentally? Let's say we're talking to like our kids, you've got a teenager, I've got a teenager, how would you explain values to them?

SPEAKER_03 2:01

For kids and even like something more like tangible, an example I say is values are things that you're able to replicate daily, and they become a part of who you are and how you think more than what you say. So, for example, you know, if you really value, you know, integrity, if you really value accountability, sure, you're gonna you're gonna just live it in everyday life. Your habits will be established around that value. So I like to tell my kids we have we have a warrior code in our family, you know. We have, you know, we've established it from like the samurai, you know, because my martial arts background. And so we have certain seven virtues, we call them virtues or values that we live by. And we kind of talk about every week in our little family meeting we have on Sundays. And we talk about how we can apply these in our daily life, like with actual tangible actions and habits. So we work out every morning. That's just something we do, you know.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

It's like and you have a 13-year-old boy and twin, 10-year-old girls?

SPEAKER_03 3:02

10-year-old girl, boy and girl, twins, yeah. Okay, and then so two boys, one girl.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Oh, oh, I didn't realize that.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

No, you're good.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

And then you so you work out with them every day. Every morning, yep. Well, five days a week, you know.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 3:11

And that's just that's one thing we value is just getting up and and being disciplined and doing something that's healthy every day, something that's kind of hard, yeah, you know, that creates a little bit of a callus, you know, for your mind so you can do harder things when it needs to be done in life. So we're putting in that work every day, little things like that. Another thing we have, for example, is a value that we we like to live by in my family is compassion. And so some people think of that as weakness, but we have examples of how compassion is actually a strength and how um doing something to help others actually helps ourselves. And we we've gone through examples of that through service. And I really believe in all that stuff. And I think you can say you believe it, but what you do every day really defines your values.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

That is such a powerful shift because I think um everyone's worked for companies that have values, and listen, if you even know what they are, that's rare. Yeah, but if some companies they'll see the values on the wall, but they don't live them. Yeah, so it's in the it's in the action of the values that make the value like sticky and actually applicable. So in your family, you gave a beautiful little masterclass on how you've incorporated this concept beyond the business and into your home, but you also talk about how to implement. So um, I'm curious about that system. You have a discussion every Sunday and um you talk about the values, and then you identify ways that people have lived them. And and do you like, do you I'm guessing you honor the people who like how do you give me walk me through that Sunday meeting of values? Tell us what first of all, list all seven of your family values and then talk about how you like work through that. So we we have we call it a code, you know.

SPEAKER_03 4:48

That's right, the warrior code of honor. Woodbury warrior code, we call it, you know, just to be fun. We established it when my kids were younger and kind of came up together, uh, came up with it as a family. And so we go through a certain amount of, you know, there's there's attributes and or values or virtues that you want to call them. And we meet every Sunday and we try to do it every Sunday, it can be a different day. And I assign of a virtue or a value to one of my kids, or myself, or my wife. And we go over them and say, you know, like, hey, you're gonna go over honesty today. And they're gonna go over that and and kind of and they kind of apply it to how what what they're in their mind, how they can apply it in life.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

So that's so they're teaching it. Yeah, they're teaching it. It's a place of like for me, like almost like a demonstration. Here's here's yeah, I'm over honesty. This is what I think about it, here's what I can do more about it. Yeah, so we have so for example, we have integrity is our number one, right?

SPEAKER_03 5:40

Integrity is the first value. We have honesty, honor, compassion. And then there's there's other ones like courage, that's important, loyalty, you know, and then respect. And so we have those, and we I def I divvy those out every every week. And I'm like, hey, you know, William, you're gonna give the one to this week. And we haven't gone over, you know, loyalty, or I'm kind of sensing there's what we need to go over. Right, okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

So you use this, so you use this model as to kind of like, hey, we're we're kind of falling out of honesty or oh yeah, or courage. You know people seem really scared and they don't want to do hard things. Let's talk about that. And they're used to it. So it's not like this heavy-handed lecture.

SPEAKER_03 6:15

Exactly. It's not, it some can sometimes can be kind of like off the cuff. Yeah, I'm like, well, we need we really got to go over compassion. Like I'm seeing some some horrible behaviors in in our own family, and we talked about we gotta start here, you know. And so I I use that similar strategy, and like I said, with values, it's kind of ingrained into your daily life and habits, into my work. I

The Woodbury Family Warrior Code

SPEAKER_03 6:37

do that with my team. I love to, we have weekly meetings with our team, you know, and so I talk about we have little in-services. Last couple weeks ago, we worked on communication, different styles of communication, the importance of that within a team. Um, communicating with love, sometimes tough love, you know.

SPEAKER_01 6:55

Yeah, you go through those elements. You know, it's interesting, Jerem. I um I have been okay about this with my family. Like I have a set of values. I don't think they would know what they are. We talk about them very infrequently. So I'm running my family on a poorer level than I do my companies, because my companies, we never we have a weekly meeting, leadership. We've had this in every company I've owned for the last 15 years, and we do exactly what your family does, where every week another person, first of all, there's a CEO of the week. So someone else is like the CEO and they run the actual structure. And I did this initially to be lazy because I just got tired of like always being the show.

SPEAKER_02 7:28

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

And so everyone takes a turn being the CEO, and then one person talks about either the purpose or one of the values. And they'll go through and they'll do exactly and we'll pick things based on like what we're so this is really a system here that helps you because it's not like you know, you're just establishing this and then talking about it, and then you know, you're it's a daily reminder. How important do you think that frequent reminder is in that weekly meeting in terms of how your kids and your company are living and integrating those values?

SPEAKER_03 7:57

I think it's paramount. There's no I've I've learned over the course of you know leading teams and different types of people for over a decade that you can't just set something down and then let it go and expect people to pick it up on their own. There has to be like one of our company's core values is accountability. And it it's accountability is not just hounding someone always about how are your numbers. It's like what can I do to help you? How are your numbers? You gotta be aware of that, but like are these realistic? Are these is the expectation clear? And like, do you feel like we're actually asking something that like not that double standard? You know?

SPEAKER_01 8:39

Right, can do you know how to here's what we're asking. Do you agree and can you are you are do you know how to do it?

SPEAKER_03 8:45

Yeah, get into the why, get into I want them to understand everything about it. And so I think that that has a big part with my family as well. Like, why are we why do you have values in your life? You know, they're kids, they're learning. We're trying to create it reasonable adults that contribute to society, right? And so these are some things that we've come up with that will help them contribute to society and themselves and just be happier people in general. And so it takes a lot of repetition because it's hard to grasp these these big vague concepts as values, you know, these buzzwords that you see every day.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:19

So we're trying to define them and make them applicable into real life actions. And so I do that with my company, I do that with my my family, I do it with myself. And that's why I think is how we talked about values are really how is like the DNA of how you live.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

You know, I am I'm very sad as we're talking and I'm being very sincere on the street. I'm trying to make it sad. No, the the the it's it's it's regret. It's I I knew these concepts. I I have four kids and two of them are adults now, and two of them are teenagers, 14 and 13. And I I've done better, I think, than than if I hadn't been a business owner, because we do have values. I think a lot of owners might be feeling this too, like, wow, I can't believe I haven't been doing this. So maybe that's good that I'm connecting with the audience that way. But it's it's almost this thing of like, what a missed opportunity to not have these values set in. Now, I'm also feeling a bit inspired because Jerem, I'm like, yeah, I can, it's not too late. What if I went through and created something today for my kids' high school, my last two kids high school year? Yeah. And what if I what if I became that grandparent who created and one of the things that you you did that I love is how you you didn't just call them values, you call it a warrior's code.

SPEAKER_03 10:25

Yeah, it has a code.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Um that is so cool because you're personalizing it to you and your family because you talk about the MA background.

Turning Values Into Team Culture

SPEAKER_01 10:33

So that MMA background that the audience has, because you were an MMA fighter and still are training.

SPEAKER_03 10:37

Yeah, yeah. So I think that does it that ties in a hundred percent to to who I am and what I do as a martial artist, as a person, as a business owner, as a a father, as a dad, as a husband. Um I think that you have to have a certain sense of direction and especially when it comes to competition, you and especially with a competition that's as high stakes as mixed martial arts, cage fighting.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

Yeah, you use I used to swim. So the worst thing that would happen if I lost was uh I would lose.

SPEAKER_03 11:12

You lose, you go unconscious. You could get seriously injured for the rest of your life. It's it's almost life and death. But there is a control to it because there's a referee there. His primary job is to protect the fighters and then to you know help make sure the fight is going in the right direction and following the rules. But he wants to protect the fighters, so there is a sense of control, but the stakes are higher. And so you have to have a clear direction, you have to have a very clear mind. And so what I like to apply when it comes to mixed martial arts is yes, a code is very important, but there's this principle, I don't know if you've ever heard of it in uh motor learning and development when I was an undergrad. It's when I first started competing professionally, um, cage fighting. I've been doing it since I was in my twenties. And like you said, I just fought uh about five months ago um professionally again, just decided to just jump back in there, right? And there's this principle called the inverted U principle. I don't know if you've heard that one, but there's the two axes, the y and the x-axis. And as arousal starts to get higher, your performance starts to improve, right? And then there becomes a point where you're at that optimal state of arousal. And then the problem is though, depending on the activity, right, there is an optimal state of arousal for each different activity, right? Fighting is one, you know, mixed martial arts, sure. Swimming could be another one. But you can't go out there just completely just too relaxed, right? You have to be hyped up a little bit. But if you get too hyped up, there becomes a point, that point of diminishing returns. Right. Performance starts to decline, the U starts to curve down.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

The cortisol kicks in, all these opposite things. Because like so the adrenaline, and then it starts to maybe curve down when it gets in the cortisol level.

SPEAKER_03 12:51

So when it comes to martial arts, that that became so apparent to me because and I remember just talking to different people that when I first started competing professionally, they were like, you just gotta get really amped up, man, and just see red and get in there, and you know, and I'm like, that's not how it works, you know? Yeah. Because if you get too amped up, your performance declines and you get caught. And I noticed that there was this cerebral aspect to it, and the best fighters out there from the high level to the UFCs, and I trained with a lot of the UFC fighters at my gym when I was training in Utah at the pit elevated. And so I noticed that these guys weren't just these meatheads. Like they were very smart. They knew how to turn it on to a point, but they knew that if you got too high with your state of arousal, you would start to make mistakes and you would start to let things slip. And that's how people take advantage of that, right? Right. So it's this high-level chess game that's going on. With your with your face on the line. Yeah. Well, oh yeah. Sacrificing your body and your mind as well. You know, I was very fortunate to never get a concussion. So Are you serious? I'm I like to move a lot.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

So I'm certified in concussion rehabilitation because I've had uh some really tragic concussions in my own family where mild traumatic brain injuries, it's a very big deal. So that's the only I just I was gonna maybe even talk to you about having our episode be about concussions, but I'm so glad we're doing values.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

I'm lucky there.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

So how did you get um so yeah, tell me about how that MMA background and everything you just talked about with the inverted you, how that applies to values in your family and business.

The Martial Artist Mindset Explained

SPEAKER_03 14:18

Because that's kind of what keeps your head when you're when you're trying to fight that that innate just um adrenaline to just keep on letting that that state of arousal keep going straight linearly. Yeah. You have to have something that keeps you grounded. And that comes down to the systems, the values you've had, the the day in, day out training training you've done. And at the end of the day, you have you can't just go in there and wing it in a in a high-level professional fight. I've seen guys do it and they get lucky, there's a lucky punch all the time. But when it gets down, when you start to get tested against a real opponent, you have to have something like that to keep you grounded. I notice that with my team when I'm working in the clinic. And I treat about 25 hours a week still, so I'm and then the other half of the days, mornings I'm doing admin. And so I'm on the floor with my team a lot, and I get a lot a lot of sense of kind of how that flow is, that optimal state, the flow state when it comes to treating patients in the clinic. And so if it gets too busy, that's like getting too much arousal. Like you're getting you're gonna get a point of diminishing returns. And we're like, whoa, like you can sense that. If it's too slow, same thing. Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

I felt it's worse. It is, in my opinion, it is. I think it's you know, I nothing everyone loved my comp I've heard this quote and I love it, is that production is the basis of morale. And to your point, we could add a layer of that saying overproduction is is a diminishing return, but uh but not being productive enough is worse. People would just sit around going, you know what, I don't like this place. They start complaining. When they're busy, they're like, this is a pretty awesome place. When they're over busy, they're burning out.

SPEAKER_03 15:52

Yeah. So that that really made it apparent to me when I was competing at those high stakes. Yeah. Because if you let yourself slip, if you let those emotions take over in a in a professional, you know, cage fight, you can wake up with the flashlight in your eyes, you know, and you're like, what happened? Right. So you have to keep composure, but if you let off too much and you don't pull the darn trigger when you see an opening, then it's gonna be a boring fight, you're gonna have regret, you're gonna be like, man, why didn't I just oh I saw so many openings? You'll want to watch the fight afterwards and hate yourself. So that became so apparent in that high level of a competition that when I see it in everyday life now, and I see it in my family, I see it in my team, I see it in the leadership team when we're when we're sometimes I can see like, oh man, we are we're getting a little too overworked. We need to be some kind of fun to lighten the mood. Or we need to, you know, we need to pick things up, we need to kind of get the the energy going here because we're starting to get in the lull. And so I put some pressure on keeping getting that production up because we know that we have a better flow state when we're we're relatively busy, you know?

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:57

And everyone's a little different, every team member has a different optimal state of arousal, right? Every team member has a different flow state. So mentoring new grads and then vets that have been doing it for 20 years is very, very different. And so having those one-on-ones with my my team is also very important to help them find out where their flow state is and when it tying that into the overall accountability aspect is like this is what you gotta be accountable. But if you do more than that, you can bonus, you know, you can get more.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

Yeah, accountability is a balance, right? Like in using that value as an example is that when you teach that the way that you guys do at OSR, it's like this thing called, hey, you know, accountability is making sure that you're productive because that's how we all are happy. Exactly. But if you're over, if you're gonna stretch intentionally, accountability means being recognized for that and financially recognition, financial recognition being a big part of it.

SPEAKER_03 17:46

Maybe a little bit more, you know, and then if you want to just if you're just fighting fighting to get that the the baseline, yeah, then I'm gonna help you with that, you know, and then we'll work on that. Because some people, that's their goal. They were trying to ramp them up to what they're accountable for. And then some people are like, that's easy. How can I bonus? And we're like, hey, well, your optimal state of arousal a little higher, right? And so we kind of coach and help with uh getting everyone to where they want to be.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

It's interesting because your approach really is a warrior-centric approach. Because I see in a way I've never I'm learning so much from you, Jerem. The idea that values are, and then the way that you do the weekly meeting is a way of of practicing before you get into the into before you before you get into the octagon, you have these weekly meetings with your kids, your your team meetings with your your your members over at OSR. Yeah, you're building them up. They don't, I don't think, I don't think I was ever aware of that, but it's true. When we talk about these values and we're like finding ways to recognize and live them, when the crap hits the fan.

SPEAKER_03 18:41

And it will.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

And it always will, professionally at work, at home with the kids, we have this like foundation that like is a reminder of how to stay in in the flow state in the face of extreme adverse adversity. And there's probably no greater example than MME. Yeah, because all these things like our kids go through fights, our team goes through like battles with insurance and like you know, patients and all these things. It's a it's a real battle.

SPEAKER_03 19:07

I think that really became apparent to me in this last this last professional fight. So, you know, fighting, and then I I had my last fight, professional fight, 10 days before graduate school started, PT school. And so I remember announcing, you know, after I thank goodness I won, you know, and we got fight of the night, you know, nice bloody battle against a really tough opponent, great guy, Jeremy Peterson. And uh yeah, I remember that we I laid down my gloves and I said, Hey, I'm retiring, but I'm I mean you know, you can't just stop being a little, you know, being a martial artist, right? That's how I believe it. I'm not a fighter, I'm a martial artist, right? Yeah, right. And so I continued on through, but you do forget a little bit of that comp competitive nature, and that it's almost like a little bit of uh you gotta be a little sadistic, you gotta be a little bit of like enjoying kind of causing some pain because it's gonna be caused to you, right? And so you kind of put that aside. By the way, great analogy for being a physical therapist.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Yes, like we love to cause we c like to cause a little bit of pain, but anyway.

SPEAKER_03 20:05

But we want to we want to make it feel better in the end, right? Right. It's a little different, it's kind of like the yin the yin, right? Yeah, and so I put that away for you know for 13 years. I'm I'm developing these other very, you know, I'd say very familiar and um applicable, you know, kind of skills in life that I had in had learned and started to learn in MMA.

Fighting The Inner Coward

SPEAKER_03 20:26

But going back into the cage last, you know, last year, it was in October, end of October, I realized that there is something inside of us that wants us to fail. And it's really interesting. I call it the inner coward. Um and it it wants to take that easy route. Some people call it resistance. Um I know Stephen Pressfield loves that term in his book. But I I definitely had forgotten that because I hadn't pushed myself to that level in so long competitively, and I like to do something that scares me. Yeah. Every year, one to two things that really scare me. And but this was this was one of those, right? But at the same time, in the first round, the first minute, I had been training this whole seven, eight weeks for the worst-case scenario, which was this guy's a grappler, he wants to take you down, he wants to take your back, he wants to choke you out. That's how he has a hundred percent finish rate on all his wins. He finishes people, he makes them tap, or we go to sleep. And guess what happened in the first minute? I didn't get taken down, but I slipped. I did a little stupid, I don't even know. I look at him like, how did I lose my footing? You know, um, I slipped. What did he do? He jumped right on my back. He had his he had everything going on in the right way for him, right? I'm like, I got 14 minutes left of this potentially. And that inner coward comes up and creeps up and says, you know what? His hands around, his arms around your neck. You could just you could just tap. It'll be over. No one's gonna be upset with you. Everyone's gonna be like, hey, good job. You went out there, you did your best, you're an old guy fighting this young guy, and it's been 13 years, you know. Immediately though. And that was what really kind of fired me up was immediately the other voice comes in and says, Are you serious? Are you seriously entertaining that thought? Get up. And then you hear your coaches, and then you turn on all those core values or habits that you've established for 13 years, and then you just turned them on at a different level for the last seven, eight weeks, right? And I remember I got up, I'm like, why was I even considering that? I got up so I got up pretty easy. Turned around, he never got me down the rest of the fight. And I felt like I pushed the paint the entire entire rest of the fight. Did you guys go to completion? Did you guys have to go to the city? Yeah, we went to the whole three rounds, and I felt like I could go two or three more rounds after that. I was backing him up most of the fight. And I I just felt like nothing against him because he was probably the toughest guy I've ever fought. But it really helped me realize like, man, there is that inner coward that wants you to quit sometimes, and we gotta fight that. And sometimes we gotta we didn't even realize it that it's there, making us change, take the easy road, sleep in a little longer, you know, don't uh, you know, we'll put off your notes for tomorrow, you know, right all that stuff. Just, you know, it's that that inner coward. And it's it's hard to recognize that. But when you put yourself in a situation that's at the high stakes of a cage fight, it helped me to recognize it immediately. But I'm so glad that, like I said, when you have these innate values you've practiced over and over and over to establish through your actions, through your beliefs, your mindset, you can shun, you can shut that guy up and say, get out of here.

SPEAKER_01 23:29

Because you have your foundation. Uh-huh. It's this foundation of like, and you've been practicing over and over again. You've um in your weekly meetings, comparing it to values. You've got your discussions with your kids or your team. You're talking about actions, and so when they're in that motion and all of a sudden the end the enemy is literally got you around the neck.

SPEAKER_03 23:45

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

You you you have that rehearsed, like almost intuitive sense of like, no, get up.

SPEAKER_03 23:52

It's almost muscle memory, but there's always gonna have that that uh I I almost call it like this innate kind of like want or need to choose the easier route, right? And we have to train ourselves to go the higher road, you know, take the higher road or or obviously do what we know is right, but is really not easy and kind of scary. Totally. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:17

So let me ask you um, first of all, did you win the fight? Of course. Yeah. I got it. My audience, so guys, uh wonderful story.

SPEAKER_03 24:24

What is an inspiring eight in one record professionally? Okay. But I did lose my very first professional fight. Back when you were young, though. When I I yes, and it was not a completed fight. I accidentally poked him in the eye. That's 100% on me. I should close my hands, right, with those little gloves. And it was a third round. And it wasn't a DQ, but it was like a let's stop it and score it as it is. And the two judges gave him the fight, one judge gave me the fight, and so I lost that fight. And it was rule to decision in his favor. I could have quit right there. I'm like, oh, oh and one as a pro.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:56

I'd give it a good run, you know, but I can't stand that.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

Isn't it interesting? Going I love this idea. You went back because going back in time, you know, back where you're young man, you're getting started, you failed the first time. Oh yeah. And it it's disappointed. And you wanted to be done. Uh-huh. And all your and you felt I'm sure all the feelings we do, I'm not trying to put this into your your experience, but like I just idea of like when we fail, how bad we feel. Like we just don't want to do that. Voice gets louder of nah, just just be done.

SPEAKER_03 25:21

Yeah. I hate it. I will tell you, there's nothing worse than losing something that's specifically one-on-one and even not being able to finish it because I did something illegal, because like poking a guy in the f in the eye. But it I think that nothing fuels you more than losing if you have the right mindset to learn from that loss. And that's what I did. I remember I fought three times in like a month and a half after that because I wanted to just get back in there and get that taste out of my mouth. I won those, obviously. I never lost after that fight. But it was I'm glad I did lose actually in some ways, because it taught me what I never want to feel again, you know, and to just do everything I can within control to avoid that again. And then accept it. If you can't, you can't win everything, but you can sure as heck learn from everything.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

Yeah, rock stars. Um Jerem just hit something I want to hit really heavy, which is this idea that when we lose, when we fail, we want to stop. We want to be done. Yeah. That's normal.

SPEAKER_02 26:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

Um, but the only way to truly fail is to quit. That's true. Because for you, it was let's just keep going. Yeah, yeah. And that and because you chose to keep going, that failure fueled you. Because at that point, there's almost like there's no middle ground. There's no like, well, I guess I'll kind of keep going. It's either you're completely done, I'm out. I had a one one loss fight career, or I I'm all back in. So if you don't want to fail, truly fail, meaning you quit, there's there's nothing else to do but ramp it up.

SPEAKER_03 26:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

There's no other choice. Yeah. Because there's you can't, it's there's something beautiful about the fact that that failure polarize, our failures polarize our decisions. And and sometimes in life we do, we quit, and that's when we truly fail. But even then we can learn. Yep. But what but I just want to highlight what's possible in this example of MMA of how when you turned around and said, No, I'm going in, it turned into this thing that fueled your your whole future and is still affecting you in decades later, and it's affecting the way you raise your kids and your team and the way OSR is being shaped. It's like because you're you're not hiring people OSR, you're not raising kids, you're building fighters. Excuse me. You're building warriors.

SPEAKER_03 27:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:28

Because you're not fighters, you're you're we call them martial artists.

SPEAKER_03 27:31

I think there's a difference because there is an art to it, you know. Your medium is violence and combat and not paint or clay. Yeah. Martial artists. Yes, I we can call. I I like the I mean, yes, martial artists fight. They do, you know, and but I I love the the analogy, or I guess there's a quote that is attributed to Sun Tzu, but we don't know exactly who said it, but it's better to be a warrior in the garden than a gardener in the

Failure, Learning, And Not Quitting

SPEAKER_03 27:55

war. And I would say, like, yeah, we wanna we wanna learn these these skills. We hope we never use them, but we want to know that we have the confidence that we can go into situations with you know, with being protected, you know, physically as well as mentally, because most of it is mental. I think that's about 90% of it at the end of the day. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

Absolutely. And so you you you have your fights, but you're also training people. Obviously, you're training your kids, yep, literally training them in every way.

SPEAKER_03 28:22

Yeah, they do jujitsu boxing, you know, and then they they train at the gym that I coach at Proving Ground MMA in surprise. Um but then my and I have actually it's kind of crazy that the you know law of attraction it works in crazy ways, but I've actually since I started working, I've actually hired, I have two martial artists that work with me now, and I did not know that when they applied to the job, one of them. I train at his gym now and on on Saturdays. It's called Legion MMA, and it's amazing, and they help me get ready for my fight as well. I was I was splitting my training into two gyms. And so it is kind of crazy how it does kind of bleed into every aspect of life, and you just sometimes we're unaware. But and that's why I love to just be, I have a little journal I do at the end of the day, it's a gratitude journal, and I write down three things I'm grateful for, you know. Oh, sure. Just a little reflection at the end of the day, seem like two minutes, maybe five.

SPEAKER_01 29:11

Yeah, that's that's the Benjamin Hardy gap in the gain concept. This is like, by the way, for people who don't know this concept, this thing that Jerem's talking about, if you write down something that you're grateful for, a win from but right before you go to bed, it programs, they've done studies, it programs your subconscious to actually look for more success. Oh, yeah. And there's an organic gain that occurs in life just because you start programming your subconscious to be successful.

SPEAKER_03 29:33

Yeah, I literally wake up feeling more optimistic. And it also helps me just reflect on like, I am so grateful that I have this person in my life. I am so grateful I have a bed to sleep in, you know, and it gives you a good state of mind, you know, but it also helps you realize those little things that have kind of like ingrained themselves into your life without you noticing it. Yeah. And I think noticing it is just it's like a delight. You know, it's really fun to have every day to do that.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Yeah, and you're training obviously those people, but then you train people at your office. I I almost want to call this thing the martial artist mindset.

SPEAKER_03 30:02

There you go.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

You know what I mean? The the martial artist M-A-M. Because you have this thing that you're doing with your kids that's literally martial arts, and you're cre creating these warriors. Yeah. Same way at work, not so much the physical, but then you're also still training other martial artists. Yes, yeah. So you're training across the board in all these different elements. How does training other people in this mindset help enforce your value set?

SPEAKER_03 30:24

I think it like we talked about values, accountability is one of the values that I really have ranked pretty high. Me too. And it helps me stay accountable because it's really easy when you get to a leadership position to kind of take a step back, you know, and try to, you know, I don't have a problem with delegating. Actually, really, that's one thing I'm really working on hard because I did ha hate that at first because I want to just do it myself, right? It's easier to do it yourself. Do it right. Or it's you know, it shows more, you know, better example to just work hard, be the hardest worker in the room. But at the end of the day, you realize your limits and that you're you're more valuable as a leader than you are as a one of the fellow employees or or team members, right? And so when it comes to martial arts, being accountable is a huge part of or I'd say being more competent is a big part of respect when it comes to martial artists. So not that I'm I'm 40, gonna be 42 this year, and I'm never I'm not gonna be able to hang with some of the young guys forever, right? That's I like to do it. I still like to play around with the young guys. Yeah, knock them out of the way. Give them a little give them a little run for their money. But I know that that that's not gonna last forever. But I think that that's not only what they see. They see that you're there day in, day out. You're you're still competing at the levels that you can, because especially in jujitsu, they have masters competition, right? Where the old guys, you know, see the guys with the gray hair in there, but they're still and and and and it gives a lot of respect. The young guys are like, man, like look at those guys still going at it, you know, at 60 years old, you know, there's still guys that are that are competing with other six-year-olds, right? Yeah, and so I think that that helps me having this martial artist mindset helps me keep myself accountable because I know others are watching. I know that they're my kids are watching every day. You know, they're watching me. Does dad wake up and do his ice bath this morning? You know, does dad is dad working out? You know, it and you can say all you want to kids and your employees, but it's really what you do and what you tolerate that that they see that makes you who you are. And so with martial arts, it's very similar. You go in there and oh yeah, he can say this, but can he actually do that? Or did he actually do that? And so your martial artists, my my my students see that. And I I try to inspire them with my actions and my actual daily habits. I think it helps hold me accountable.

SPEAKER_01 32:49

Yeah, to build a warrior, you have to demonstrate the life of a warrior. Yeah, you have to live it. And then, you know, we all we all understand this concept that the best way to teach leadership is through example. But what I love about your description is how it's tied to the value-based. Yeah. I've never seen that before. How our values are what we do or hurt it in this way to where it's like your values are what you choose to do in life, and you creatively and intentionally create those. And that's that's where the words come in: integrity, courage, whatever those words we choose to be, but they define and describe actions. And those actions and descriptions are gonna vary. Like my your take on accountability, even though we share a passion for that value, is gonna be different because the flavor that I I subscribe to is based on my background, yeah, how I was raised, what I care about, things that I'm looking for in the future. I think our vision does play into the shaping of these values in some way, but it's it's all about just like the connection I'm seeing between the language we use, the actions we take, and the example we set. So again, the language we use, the actions we take, and the example ultimately that we set reinforces that cycle over and over again.

SPEAKER_03 33:58

Yeah, I like that way to put it because it makes it a little more clear and and it involves I think the whole concept. Like we are sometimes we're talking more because we can't do much, right? And we're educating and employees, patients, um, family members, and then sometimes we're we're doing something with them, we're going on a hike with them. You know, you're doing the exercise with your patient, right? Yeah. And then I think a lot of it is that sets the example to to yourself first. I think it builds confidence when you're actually practicing what you preach and it solidifies the value. And then also I think it does the same to other people.

SPEAKER_01 34:33

I love it. All right, Jerem, this has been such a phenomenal discussion.

Rapid Fire And A Message For Kids

SPEAKER_01 34:36

Before I do my rapid fire questions, I always like to end on some rapid fires. Yeah. How do people get a hold of you?

SPEAKER_03 34:41

So I have uh so OSR physical therapy is the company that professionally you'll get a hold of me there, right? I'm work, I'm at the Sun City Clinic one to six every day. Well, Monday through Thursday, Fridays we get out early. So I'm there in the morning and we're out of there by one. And but when it comes to training, I'm at Proving Ground MMA or I'm at Legion MMA. There's uh one in Supreme Court.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

Proving Ground MA, Legion M M ⁇ A, and then OSR physical therapy is one of my favorite Arizona-based physical therapy practices. I'm good friends with your CEO, Aaron Williams. I love that guy. Really, you know, private it's a privately owned, very powerful business. Uh I get nothing for saying any of this stuff. So anyone who's listening, I just really I loved how you guys have culturally built something that promotes the industry and the therapist in a way that, like when most PTs are like, should I become a PT? This is where you guys are thriving. Um yeah, man, that's so exciting about that. So what's your email just in case people need to get home? And I'll put it in the show, and I'll put it in the show notes as well. All right, rapid fire questions.

SPEAKER_03 35:39

Oh boy, here we go.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

Okay, what's the most painful thing that's happened to you in one of your fights?

SPEAKER_03 35:45

Okay. Well, that's really interesting because I wouldn't say it was in my fights because we're in your training or because in the fight, I have broken toes and fingers and I did not know it until afterwards. Okay. And that's very common. I have broken every single finger and toe. Oh, jeez. I've broken my nose four times. I've dislocated both of my AC joints. I have no right ACL or meniscus.

SPEAKER_01 36:06

Hey, thank you for curing this the slight desire I had before you started talking about joining MMA after our discussion. So, anyway, so we'd love to.

SPEAKER_03 36:12

If you do it long enough, you will get injured. Yeah. And so a big goal of mine is to help martial artists work through those injuries. But when it comes to pain, I think probably the most pain I've ever had when it comes to like an actual injury, like a physical injury, would be I was just training and I got picked up and slammed onto my shoulder and I tore my right AC joint. And I I knew it right away. You know, when you hear that crunch crunch and your shoulder rolls over. And it's not the initial impact that hurts, it's when you stand up and your arm doesn't do what it's supposed to do. It just hangs there like a zombie arm. So that pain is is not fun. And then this the lingering pain afterwards aching. But honestly, it's not it's not, I don't, I don't mind physical pain. Probably that's why I do what I do. But it's it's just it's very uncomfortable and it's just annoying. I would say it's annoying. You can't sleep, you know, and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 37:06

Okay. Proudest or happiest moment in your MMA career. Like what was something that stood out to you? I will tell you, and I might even cry, but after my last fight.

SPEAKER_03 37:18

Just looking out in the stands and seeing my kids. I know. They were just I had never fought with my kids before. When I'd fought, I didn't have children. The first time I'd fought with my kids, and they've seen them just so happy, and just and my coach being like, man, he whispered to me, dude, you're like a superhero to your kids now. And I was like, oh my gosh, like I realize the impact it has on not just me. You know, it's not a selfish thing, but sorry about that. Yeah, that that was probably the most proud I've ever felt. Wasn't I wasn't proud of myself. I was just so proud that they were able to watch like their dad do something very scary. And they were kind of like a little nervous and and and scared before for me, I could tell. Um, but just seeing it afterwards, I was like, oh gosh, I'm so glad that I didn't I didn't let that inner coward take over. Right. Gosh. Sorry about that.

SPEAKER_01 38:13

I sure hope no, don't never apologize for that. Everyone who's listening just want to highlight this powerful lesson that you just taught around like what's possible when we don't listen to the coward. Yep. Because at the end of the day, as parents, you know this. It's an imperfect journey. Yeah. It is, it is, it is the most challenging thing I've ever done as being a parent. Oh, yeah, that's easy to say. So so to have those moments where we rise above as leaders and we have something of an example that we can be proud of, that they can be they can take pride in. The pride is the fact that we chose to do something hard so that those people that we love more than life itself can look at that and go, you know what, my dad, he gets back up. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 38:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:58

Okay, man. Awesome. Um, if you were to write a book about this, this whole topic, what would it be called?

SPEAKER_03 39:04

Oh goodness. You know, I'm kind of liking the whole uh martial arts mindset, you know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 39:10

Um just so you know, when I said that, I literally thought after this episode I'm gonna ask him to write that book. Oh, good. That's why I came up with that question. These m these rapid fires are always done on the spot impromptu.

SPEAKER_03 39:18

I like it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

All right. Um somewhere in the world that you're excited to go, or somewhere in the world you've been that you've you've really loved.

SPEAKER_03 39:27

Okay, so when I talk about it, I like to create systems that are you know long-term. I like to listen to at least one to two podcasts a week, read one to two books a month, and then do one to two things a year that scare me, right?

SPEAKER_00 39:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:43

I'm doing this year, my brother, my younger brother, he's he's an amazing kid. He's one someone I look up to. We're he's turning 40 this year. And so we're gonna go to uh Peru and do a four-day hike and go start in Cusco and go to Machu Picchu. Machu Picchu. So that's one thing I'm super excited to do is just get out there totally unfamiliar. And me and him and a few other of my buddies from high school actually, um, we're gonna go and see if we can handle that terrain a little bit. Four-day hike should be fun.

SPEAKER_01 40:12

Awesome. All right, last question. Um, one of the greatest values I think of doing these podcasts, Jeremiah the fact that these are little snippets in time that of course your team at OSR will hear and those kids, those three kids are gonna hear. Yeah. So they get to see you frozen in time talking, and and what would you like to tell your kids about values?

SPEAKER_03 40:34

I think that when it comes, when I look back and I reflect on values, is people think that they have to be perfect. They think that they have to, you know, you have to have this so much pressure to to live by these values every day. But I think that one of our our values is honesty and being honest with yourself that you're not perfect. And I and I I'm not a perfect dad. I do things, I yell sometimes, and I get frustrated, I get impatient.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

Um by the way, if you ever yelled at me as you as your kid, I'd be extra scared. Yeah, well, I've never thanked me. I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_03 41:09

But you know, I'm saying, like, I I I mean like and I feel ashamed sometimes. But one thing I do know, and I want my kids to know, and I want other people to know, is like there's one thing you can't be perfect about, and it's asking for forgiveness. And so I like to show my kids that I'm like, hey, dad's not perfect, but you know he's gonna come and apologize to you. You know he's gonna try and make amends. And that's one value is being honest with yourself about your imperfections. And but not letting them just not accepting them, asking for forgiveness, learning from them. I'm getting better. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 41:38

Jerem, thank you so much for being on the show. It's been phenomenal. And Rockstar, thank you so much for tuning in to a very special episode. Um, I feel like today's episode really elevated not just like our company's values, but our families and ourselves as leaders, remembering to set that example, to not listen to that inner voice, and to, as always, stick to the vision. Um, so thanks again for tuning in to the Willpower podcast. As always, this is Will Humphreys reminding you to lead with love and to never give up.